I will send Danny’s updated quote later this week.
Thanks for your reply. I appreciate your work to get bids at the lowest cost, but as of now, I don’t have any more critical information than I did before. I have to push a little harder:
Please supply either brochures or URLs (web addresses) for the two companies that submitted bids. The kind of information I’m looking for is below.
Please provide any documentation describing what Danny was asked to build or what he proposed to build. So far I know:
– It’s a 40 ft x 60 ft pavilion,
– To be built over existing 24 x 33 ft concrete pad, which would have to be extended.
– Open high ceiling, with “hip roof.”
– Roof could be one of many colors,
– Posts would be standard treated wood,
– That’s all I know.
To make a judgement, I would need to know:
– How the roof is surfaced – steel, shingle, PVC, or what?
– How is the framing laid out? What’s it made of?
– How many posts? Where? (I don’t require Building Dept. drawings, a sketch or written description would do.)
– How are the posts are attached? A rectangular structure is inherently unstable and needs reinforcement to withstand lateral forces (wind).
– What footings are involved – concrete? how large? How deep? How are the posts attached to the footings?
– Will the wood framing be painted at the quoted prices?
– What wind speed is the structure warranted for, if any?
And so on. I think that in order to vote we need to understand what we would be getting for the money at a much more detailed level than we have yet seen.
Bill, could you please post all three estimates and their cost breakdowns so we can compare what they are offering and for how much.
Thanks for your thoughtful inquiry.
I did not send out official RFP’s.
I first contacted Lowes and Home Depot to see if they had any pavilion kits we could purchase.
Both only carry pavilion kits up to 20’x20′, not large enough to meet the potential needs.
I then did a google search for companies that provided larger pavilion with a suggested size of 40′ x 60′ to match our previous tent.
I was only able to find the 2 companies that produced standard pavilions in that size.
When contacted, I requested quotes on their basic 40′ x 60′ pavilions.
At least one company, possibly both required mandatory on site assembly by them.
Companies providing custom work typically require up front money for drawing etc, and are expected to be more expensive than pre-packaged pavilions.
The committee was looking to avoid spending money up-front
We are certainly open to any input on possible other manufacturers or providers.
In addition, I contacted Danny to confirm his previous quote which was submitted earlier than the others.
Want to be sure all quotes are valid to date.
Hope this answers your inquiry.
Hello, Bill, Feliks, and Frank:
Thanks for presenting your Pavilion Proposal in advance of the meeting. That will allow a useful discussion to take place in the next few days.
Reviewing the proposal, I see the three bids submitted, but am having trouble evaluating them, since I don’t know exactly what the bidders were responding to. Would you please submit copies of the requests for proposals (RFPs) that were sent out, as well as any accompanying specifications? If different bidders were responding to different RFPs, it will be important to know what specs and conditions were in each one.
Thanks for your work on this.
Better look into cost of monthly porta johns and garbage disposal……if people are routinely attending a gathering we will need to consider….makes me glad we are on the other side of the lake away from the potential hubbub of activity…we have raised two kids here and have always been able to keep busy when here whether it be summer or the many times we were up here during the dead of winter. It was the main reason we purchased here …. something very different from the lake communities out in the Poconos. Simple…not costly…and a place we could keep to ourselves if we wanted.
The annual picnic and water festival a nice option and of course the ice fishing competition. For those who want something a little more special the dinner dance was an annual economical night out ….. Many of us are private people who like to get away from the hectic modern life routine and just be. There is nothing like the darkness of our site lit up by a campfire. Do we really need a roof to enjoy occasional additional outdoor activities like corn hole or whatever.
And the additional noise created and possible lighting will have to be tolerated by cabins in that vicinity. I guess we are more for the “rustic” … some good food cooked on the outdoor fire, a little bit of fishing on the lake….etc. etc. Do we really feel the need to change things…. the simple way of life at Longwood Lake has been entertaining cabin owners for many many years and from what we have seen … many gererations keep coming back. It is so different and unique and again, simple. The cost of this project does not seem to be the right time either…a lot of economic uncertainty in the world right now. As someone so wisely mentioned at the meeting the other week….. the lake IS the main focus of our community and we need to be very prepared if the time comes we have to fix that dam. Thank you for your time.
Thanks Jim, appreciate your comments and especially the suggestion regarding solar.
Our committee will take in all the information you have provided.
After a few days we will look to address comments after we have received more feedback.
Hope you and Vicki are doing very well.
As treasurer of the LLCOA, I want to start by addressing our current financial situation. The monies in our Lakeland checking account are almost entirely for our operating budget and a 15% contingency. That is $76,652 for the operating budget and another $11,500 for contingency. That equals $88,000. Currently, our checking account balance is $97,000. (This includes any savings we saw as a result of cancelling the picnic and the dinner dance..those monies are in that account.) To date, over one third of our members have yet to pay their 2020 dues. Although I expect most to pay by Nov 1, I think we need to consider that during this crazy time of quarantines and unemployment, there may be a large number of members who are unable to pay. Assuming most members do pay, no more than 10-15000$ of the money in the Lakeland checking account can be counted towards actual savings. That means we actually have only $200,000 in unencumbered funds. We can not consider the monies in the Provident Money Market account and the Live Oak CD as available for any improvements or emergencies. They are earmarked solely for the dam. As stated in the proposal, we may have some financial responsibility towards dam improvements. It is highly unlikely that the $310,000 saved so far will be enough and we may very well have to use other savings as well.
I am also concerned that the $66,000 figure in the proposal is too low. Although we have not gone out for bid as of yet, the committee did solicit two other estimates. Both were over $90,000. That is nearly half again as much as the lowest estimate, and none of them include expanding the concrete slab. According to the proposal, that expansion is estimated to be another $4000-$5000. We must consider that expense in this vote because the enlargement of the concrete slab will be a necessity. Once a pavilion is constructed the grass beneath it will die from lack of rain and sun and will be just dusty dirt or mud. So this is really, at the very least, a $70,000 project..but could be as high as $105,000. Even if we were to feel comfortable spending some of our $200,000 savings, and even at the lowest cost of $70,000, we are looking at spending 35% of our savings. As treasurer, I can not recommend spending that much of our savings on anything that is not an absolute necessity.
Liability and Fire insurance for the pavilion, (at $66,000) will cost just under $500 a year. Not needing to rent a tent for the picnic each year or holding our annual meeting there will net us very little savings. The tent cost $1340 and the cost of the church for the annual meeting is $100. Considering the $500 for insurance, our savings would only be $950 per year. At that rate it would take us over 70 years to pay for the pavilion. We wouldn’t save on any other rentals for events because we don’t do any other rentals for events. The dinner dance is not held at a rental space. It is held at a restaurant. We wouldn’t have the dinner dance in the field whether we have a pavilion or not. In addition to the insurance there will certainly be further costs for maintenance. and all the potential future modifications. We might even need additional portable toilets.
As a cabin owner I am wondering what kinds of community events and activities we want to add. (We definitely do not need more to be IRS compliant.) Isn’t the lake a place to get away from all the schedules and organized sports and classes and activities? For my family it is a time to be together as a family. It is a place where my kids used their imagination to entertain themselves. It is a respite from our “other world”. We do not need to be a summer camp to attract buyers to our small community. That is not what they are looking for and that is not what they expect. Maybe before proposing such a massive project we should have taken the time to survey the membership to see how we all feel. We could ask everyone if they want more activities and what kinds. We could even attempt to schedule some for next season and see if there is sufficient interest to continue with them and if a shelter is actually desired. Unless there’s inclement weather, none of the activities described in the proposal actually need a pavilion or concrete slab. And unless it is just a little light rain, the pavilion will not protect against getting wet. Yoga, for example, will certainly not happen on concrete.
Let’s picture what this would actually look like. This proposed structure would be huge…much larger than most cabins. At 40’ X 60’ it would be literally 3 times larger than the concrete slab that is there now. Nothing in the proposal speaks to the materials to be used or the finish that will be applied. Is it all wood, is there a metal roof, will it be painted or stained? How high is the roof? How imposing will this structure actually be?
My final concern is for the neighbors of Freddie’s Field and the cabins in the cove There is no room for parking at the field as this proposal suggests. The noise and traffic would be intolerable even if there are events or activities only every other weekend. The noise from the field is particularly loud in the cove. Adding a generator and lights would be even worse. We already have issues about too much noise and too much light pollution. I, for one, am not in favor of adding more. We would have to control use by individual members who might want to host private parties there. Our liability insurance would not cover that. It would be just one more thing to regulate.
This is, without a doubt, the worst time for us to even consider this. There is too much uncertainty about even being able to get together in large crowds and socialize by next season. There is too much financial uncertainty with high unemployment and possible additional shutdowns. I do not believe we should spend more than 1/3 of our savings for a project that will potentially cost us more down the road, is clearly not a necessity, will generate more noise and light pollution, and may be utilized more by individual members than as a community. I think we can all agree that, especially in this precarious time, it is unwise to spend that much on something we do not need.
Please vote no on the pavilion proposal.
Thank you for forging ahead to propose that a Pavilion will greatly increase recreation options at the Lake.
One of the justifications was that the structure will replace the need of a tent at our annual picnic.
My observation is that the tent never was able to accommodate all the members. In fact, with the use of “picnic tables”, there will be a significant increase in Pavilion size to cover everyone.
You may recall that I was the volunteer to prepare a proposal for the “storage” building. Note that I also prepared a proposal for a pavilion that included an association office, storage for LLCOA equipment (currently scattered at various cabins),an area for the “movie crew” plus a large area for the picnic event with an area for dancing, etc.
The cost would have been approximately $100,000 to $115,000. Obviously, we could eliminate some of the amenities and bring the cost down. BTW, these costs were in 2010 +/- dollars.
Note that the committee did not allow for the dance floor (if you have attended this event [the Picnic]you know how important dancing seems to be). I suggest that the program be reconsidered to allow the construction of a structure that meets our needs now and into the future.
Also, there was a suggestion that a generator would be used when lights were needed. I suggest that the committee pursue the possibility of installing solar on the roof of the pavilion with battery storage. This could be a future expense, with generators for immediate use. This would allow evening activities with the flick of a switch!.
I am not aware when the project would start the actual construction. Early Spring would be best as there will be lots of large dump trucks and materials delivery kicking up dust.
I want to assure the committee that I am all for a Pavilion; just as long as it provides cover for all our current needs. My motivation is based on the observation of the use of the current “storage” building: it was originally designed to allow LLCOA committee meetings and sets for our ‘Movie Crew”; some scheduling has caused conflicts. None-the-less, it is a well used asset for the LLCOA.
Thank you for this opportunity to comment on the Pavilion Project.
192 Blue Road.
The Pavilion committee, consisting of Board Members Bill Klein, Feliks Kiselyuk, Frank Parillo have prepared a proposal to build a large pavilion in Freddie’s Field to encourage and entice greater involvement and interaction within the Longwood Lake community. There will be a Power Point Presentation (and pdf version) available on our website for review by all members. In addition, we will be presenting the information at our virtual Annual Meeting on October 3.
We invite and encourage all members to review the presentation prior to the meeting and to submit questions and comments regarding the information contained in the proposal. Our goal is to have all comments and questions posted on our website (anonymously if requested). “The committee will post answers to questions or comments on the website to keep members informed and to be as transparent as possible to both support any concerns regarding the Pavilion Proposal.
Comments and questions can be submitted to:
Bill Klein firstname.lastname@example.org
Feliks Kiselyuk email@example.com
Frank Parillo firstname.lastname@example.org
When responding to the Pavilion Committee please copy the LLCOA at email@example.com
We are doing this to ensure members have as much information as possible prior to the meeting to keep it both focused and concise. After the presentation and all discussion has been concluded, there will be a vote to determine if the project is approved.
The committee asks for members to review the information and hopefully support the project.
The Pavilion Proposal documents dated 9-17-20 have been removed at the request of the authors.